tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203616373409754380.post6894565772611408271..comments2022-03-27T19:24:45.849-07:00Comments on tymime's blog: How The Beatles Played Rock 'n' Rolltymimehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01565854395188018355noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203616373409754380.post-21319551534152319022009-08-08T06:50:13.000-07:002009-08-08T06:50:13.000-07:00For what it's worth:First off, I've had so...For what it's worth:<br>First off, I've had some good reviews, some bad reviews, and some mediocre reviews of my new book--pretty much par for the course--but the LA Times review is the only one that flat-out lied about the book. Despite its admittedly sensational title, it does not contain any anti-Beatles diatribe, and the lines about them turning rock into arty pap and pretension are taken from a paragraph in the introduction in which I characterize a position that is not exactly my own. (In fact, it is the position that was at the heart of much of the punk rock movement, which, at least among the punks I knew, was largely about hating the Beatles and post-Beatles as rich, arty posers.) (On the other hand, the Ramones did name themselves after Paul McCartney...)<br><br>On the separation of white and black music, obviously the US was segregated before the Beatles, but I've just watched the Woodstock movie, and the dazzling whiteness of that entire crowd is certainly a striking change from the crowds that went to the Alan Freed shows. There are lots of reasons for that, but one clear one is the fact that just as James Brown and Motown were kicking American dance rhythms in a new direction, rock was dominated by a wave of British bands that, although they had many positive virtues, had universally weak rhythm sections. And that created a basic split that has lasted ever since, in which "dance music" is a separate category from rock.<br><br>Despite what the LA Times says, though, I don't consider that comment a value judgment. Classing rock with be-bop or Bach--also non-dance styles--is not an attack, it is just a description. <br><br>Anyway, no need to go on...if you want to know what I think, I wrote a book about it. And if you don't, fair enough... As you made clear at the outset, you were arguing with the review, not with me.<br><br>All the best,<br>Elijahelijah waldhttp://www.elijahwald.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203616373409754380.post-36298571653645448642009-08-08T12:26:03.000-07:002009-08-08T12:26:03.000-07:00Hmm... well, if that's the case, I wouldn'...Hmm... well, if that's the case, I wouldn't have chosen that title.<br><br>First of all, rock music is still danced to. Sure, it's a different kind of dancing, such as moshing or headbanging, but it's still dancing. There's even a certain African feel to heavy metal, despite its often deliberate deviation from the blues, because of its use of polyrhythms. It seems to me that rock music need only have a consistent pulse to be danceable.<br>I'm of the opinion that black people divided themselves from white because they wanted to feel different. Perhaps The Beatles had a hand in alienating blacks from rock concerts, but I still wouldn't lay all the blame on them.<br><br>I of course find it offensive that you should say that British bands universally had bad rhythm sections. I've felt plenty of urges to dance to these bands, despite not being the dancing type. I'm sure thousands of people dance to such bands. It seems to me that white people merely have different approach to rhythm, which is rooted in the folk music of Europe, from what I can tell. Saying that late-'60s British bands had poor rhythm sections is an opinion, not a fact. And I have mine.<br><br>It is perhaps controversial to say this, but I think it's primarily the fault of black people that they divided themselves in the world of music. Our abuse of them prior to and during the Civil Rights Movement is certainly a contributing factor, but when the dust cleared, I've observed a general unwillingness to embrace white music culture. The term "blue-eyed soul" and the tendency to say that white people don't have soul, can't sing the blues, or can't sing rap music is a result of lingering resentment and a desire to be unique.<br><br>Personally, I find it sad that black people are unwilling to reunite the two races in the music world again, because there's nothing really stopping them. We've apologized for not giving them credit- what else do they want? When I myself try to emulate my black musician heroes like so many white people do, I mean it as a compliment. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.<br>Whites can't get enough of black music. My question is why blacks don't seem to like ours... it's very rare for me to find a rock group with black people in it. The most I know about are the metal band Living Colours and the afro-punk genre.<br><br>It's simply unfair to say that The Beatles caused a schism, no matter how you view their music, because they didn't mean to. Rock music was advancing like classical music did, and I see no crime in that. I applaud punks for returning rock to its previous rawness, but I think they were mostly intimidated. It certainly would sadden John, Paul, and George (I'm not so sure about Ringo) if you told them that they sucked the blackness out of rock music, because racial division was certainly not their intention when they said "Love is all you need".<br><br>I tire very much of the insistence that music is not all created equal. I dream of the day when people don't separate themselves into different music camps and say this or that about what makes a certain style of music lacking in the quality that made such-and-such a genre great. If there was indeed cause for alienation in the music of late-'60s rock bands, that was the decision of those who listened to it, not the creators of the music.tymimenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203616373409754380.post-27824178381212068402009-08-31T03:58:06.000-07:002009-08-31T03:58:06.000-07:00The Beatles influence comes full circle really wit...The Beatles influence comes full circle really with the proto-techno "Tomorrow Never Knows" with it's beat, looped effects and sampling that are now common staples in hip-hop.<br><br>In 1966-1967 the Beatles songs with rock and roll influences are drastically altered with avant and electronic influences like in "Flying", classical "Sgt Pepper" the title track and the various meters in "Good Morning". It's like the Beatles devoloped a new musical language honestly within pop music. I don't think it was bad thing at all.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203616373409754380.post-75448266731697034612009-08-31T07:39:16.000-07:002009-08-31T07:39:16.000-07:00I totally agree. I don't know how often hip-ho...I totally agree. I don't know how often hip-hop and techno artists listen to The Beatles, but I firmly believe that music as we know it today wouldn't exist without the revolutions of the 60's, especially The Beatles. Who cares how un-bluesy it is, anyway? Music is music.<br><br>Also, what has more in common with African music?: the tribal polyrhythms of Ginger Baker of Cream, or the repetitive four-on-the-floor thud of disco and techno? Ginger Baker went to Africa to study its rhythms, for crying out loud!<br>If we were to regard the RHYTHM as the standard, then I would say black music has become LESS African, because the beat has become simpler- while the more technically accomplished and virtuosic white groups have far more complex rhythms. Punk, because of its inherent simplicity of rhythm (sans hardcore), doesn't count here, but still...tymimenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9203616373409754380.post-24787953793154294672009-09-02T03:34:55.000-07:002009-09-02T03:34:55.000-07:00The Beatles were pretty much a paradigm shift for ...The Beatles were pretty much a paradigm shift for rock music of any kind... before them it was pretty much the exception rather than the rule that rock musicians who wrote and played all their own songs for example.<br><br>I would say the Beatles influence on music right now dwarfs Elvis and Chuck Berry. The Beatles songwriting, albums as a collective unit, using the studio as an instrument, and experimentation with things like feedback, loops, and sampling are now common in both pop and rock musicNelsonnoreply@blogger.com